New Project

[nilcum]

Hi, I'm posting to see how much interest the milovana.com community would have in a new project I am considering starting. I have several ideas but I'll lay out the simple plan first.

Create a SIMPLE easy script language to be used in an application that would be something of a hybrid of Cybermistress, milovana, and phaser. The script would basically be XML. It would look something like this:

<tease name="Test Tease">
<page number="1">
<image>https://whatever.com/1.jpg</image>
<text> Tease Text</text>
<link delay="10" next="2">Continue</link>
</page>
<page number="2">
<image>https://whatever.com/2.jog</image>
<text> Tease Text</text>
<link delay="10" next="3">Continue</link>
</page>
</tease>

This simple example would run a LOT like how milovana has the teases setup -- except there would be no required click through. The continue link would automatically be followed after a delay of x seconds. I've actually already converted all of the content on milovana.com into this format.

From there, things get more slightly advanced, the page linking that some of the teases are having you do manually would be embedded into the program. There would simply be multiple link tags.

Also, sound is a very popular addition on several other tease sites but it is missing from milovana. So, there would be a sound tag as well that will allow the author to specify the beats per minute.

Same thing goes for embedding elements of randomness into the script.

All of this has been done before. I'd like to (with permission) reproduce the content of milovana.com, orgasmdenial.com, cybermistess, pcmistress, and maybe even some of the pay tease sites that now seem to be mostly defunct into this simple scripting language. So, we could all benefit from having centralized content.

Here is where it gets interesting, and quite a bit more advanced. I am into robotics and would love to build an automatic male stroke machine. I would have this communicate with the tease program (tentatively named Tantalus) so the experience could be completely hands off. The goal would be to compile either a kit that the user could buy on their own or an end product that would plug into the program itself. I also have an interest in doing something similar with a TENS unit. That is where the phaser program comes into play.

The theme of computer controlled physical devices continues to other things as well -- think bluetooth handcuffs controlled by the program, whipping attachments... etc. I don't see getting this far but it is a nice end goal. Safety is an important consideration during all of this.

Also, in order to meet these end goals I think I would have to break out of the limitations of a web browser and actually distribute a real client. Something that is downloaded and executed.

Anyway, I'm just wanting to gauge interest. Is anyone else as excited by these ideas as I am?

[seraph0x]

Whoa. What a trip to read! I love your ideas and enthusiasm, so much is for sure.

Ok, so let's get started:

Create a SIMPLE easy script language

We actually already have one. We call it FlashTease script. I'll convert your example from above to show how the syntax looks:

Code: Select all

1#page(
    "Tease Text",
    pic("1.jpg"),
    delay(10sec, 2#)
);

2#page(
    "Tease Text",
    pic("2.jpg"),
    delay(10sec, 3#)
);

For an example of a tease written in this language, please see our most-viewed tease ever: House of Tease 2

(It's written entirely in Milovana FlashTease script.)

One thing regarding XML: Back in 2004, when I first wrote the concept for what we now call the "Secret Project" (the FlashTease system is an early spinoff of these efforts) the scripting language was XML as well. Eventually we settled for a simpler syntax. XML is a good descriptive language, but it sucks as a programming/scripting language (see XSLT) which is why we eventually dropped the idea. Don't take this as criticism, I'm just sharing our experience with it.

This simple example would run a LOT like how milovana has the teases setup -- except there would be no required click through. The continue link would automatically be followed after a delay of x seconds. I've actually already converted all of the content on milovana.com into this format.

I was thinking the same thing. To be precise: I wrote a little script that shows our regular teases in the FlashTease viewer, so that users would have options like viewing them in a slide show, etc. But I'm not exactly sure how the final thing is going to look, because the very simple HTML "Continue" scheme has it's charms, too. Probably HTML will remain the default and registered users get a settings page where they can switch to the FlashTease viewer version. (Note: This point is only concerning the regular teases. Interactive FlashTeases are of course only viewable in the FlashTease viewer.)

From there, things get more slightly advanced, the page linking that some of the teases are having you do manually would be embedded into the program. There would simply be multiple link tags.

Our technology already does this. (see HoT2 for examples of this feature)

Also, sound is a very popular addition on several other tease sites but it is missing from milovana. So, there would be a sound tag as well that will allow the author to specify the beats per minute.

Sound is also already supported. For a demonstration, start HoT2 and select No > Girls Room > Olyfka's Tease for example.

Same thing goes for embedding elements of randomness into the script.

We already support PCM2 style conditional random page selection. (i.e. you can select one page from a range at random and give further constraints.) Variables and more advanced features are planned.

All of this has been done before. I'd like to (with permission) reproduce the content of milovana.com, orgasmdenial.com, cybermistess, pcmistress, and maybe even some of the pay tease sites that now seem to be mostly defunct into this simple scripting language. So, we could all benefit from having centralized content.

Ok, this is probably the core part of this post: What I see in the BDSM software area is too many solo fighters and too few team efforts. While I appreciate the challenge of competition, sometimes I wonder how much further we would already have come if all those people contacting me with their ambitious concepts for teasing programs, girlfriend simulators and whatnot would have joined our Team instead. If you choose to go solo, let me know and we'll support you wherever we can. But please at least consider joining us instead.

In terms of our status: We have a working viewer, a tool to convert PCM2 scripts into our format and a working prototype of a GUI editor for our language. (Speaking of which: The FlashTease editor has still not gone out to our beta testers. Sorry guys, we're still struggling with the major bugs and usability issues, but we're hoping to do a public preview release soon, so keep an eye on the forums. )

Here is where it gets interesting, and quite a bit more advanced. I am into robotics and would love to build an automatic male stroke machine. I would have this communicate with the tease program (tentatively named Tantalus) so the experience could be completely hands off. The goal would be to compile either a kit that the user could buy on their own or an end product that would plug into the program itself. I also have an interest in doing something similar with a TENS unit. That is where the phaser program comes into play.

This is probably the item that we're most interested in. Hands-off stroking is quite the engineering challenge. E-Stim/TENS and strapping a vibrator to the private parts are the only viable solutions that I found to get off hands-free. Maybe a combination would be ideal? But I'd be very interested hearing about other ideas or your view on this.

Also regarding the "kit" idea: I think it's too early to say how the technology will reach the consumer. At this point we are only compiling ideas. The end result might be an assortment of independent toys, a box with slots to plug different toy modules into or even a highly integrated solution for a broader market. But that is a decision that should be made much later (after working prototypes for all ideas have been built for example.)

The theme of computer controlled physical devices continues to other things as well -- think bluetooth handcuffs controlled by the program, whipping attachments... etc. I don't see getting this far but it is a nice end goal. Safety is an important consideration during all of this.

Bluetooth handcuffs: That I think is out of reach for now. Here's a simplistic, but effective alternative: A USB controlled electromagnet taped to the roof holding the key out of reach. (Although it has it's quirks, too.)

Whipping attachments: There are only two electronic whip designs to my knowledge that ever made it to market. One was called RoboSpanker or something and was too large and expensive for our purposes. The other was called Painstation, which is much closer to what we would design as Milovana. It was a tiny box featuring a whip, electroshocks and heat. It was used to spice up a round of Pong.

Also, in order to meet these end goals I think I would have to break out of the limitations of a web browser and actually distribute a real client. Something that is downloaded and executed.

Yes, we were thinking of a daemon the user could install that would open up toy control on a local HTTP socket... then all we would need to do in the FlashTease viewer is request URLs like http://localhost:38493/vibrator?speed=30 or whatever. This would make the client incredibly lightweight and potentially very modular.

Anyway, I'm just wanting to gauge interest. Is anyone else as excited by these ideas as I am?

Hell Yeah!

[wannatasteit]

the flash tease project will be a great step..So I wanna thank u all milovana team for that

[Kenneth]

As for easy scripting language - it doesn't seem complicated, but I do prefer the Milovana syntax when I compare those two.

<image>https://whatever.com/1.jpg</image>

So your project relies on web images?

I also doubt if there's enough new features (I'm excluding sound now, since this is coming up here and already popular in other projects)

I agree, the robotics part would be - at least now - refreshing, although there's a project in the CyberMistress community with a USB Vibrator. But to stay on topic, the robotics. If this is the only brand new feature included, I doubt if you will be able to have people switch so easily to your program. You should realise that this is already a relatively small market, and I wonder how many of the members actually have such robotic equipments or how many would want to invest in them.

[jason]

a hybrid of Cybermistress, milovana, and phaser

Phaser? This is a new term to me, at least in this context...

[RoniDev]

well you really should use xml, cause you already have a language to define everything and its called xml, thats why xml was made in the first place.

code has to look like

Code: Select all

<tease>
  <page>
    <picture>pic001.jpg</picture>
    <text>bla bla bla bla<text>
    <delay>120</delay>
    <option>
       <checkbox>blablabla</checkbox>
     </option>
   </page>

   <page>
     ...
   ...
  ....
</tease>

[seraph0x]

well you really should use xml, cause you already have a language to define everything and its called xml, thats why xml was made in the first place.

XML is good as a descriptive language: Where are the elements? How many are there, what attributes do they have? What relationship to each other do they have?

But we needed a programming language. There is a reason why there isn't a single popular* programming language in XML. It's just crazy difficult to program in a language that was meant solely for data structures. Don't get me wrong: I love XML, we used it for all communication between the FlashTease editor and the server, for storing media information, for the rich text component and the list goes on and on. But as a scripting language it just sucks. Hard.

Try expressing this JavaScript snippet in XML:

Code: Select all

var numberOfEdges = 0;
while (numberOfEdges < 5) {
   page("Keep at it");
}

Note: This does not actually work in the FlashTease viewer yet, but something like that can and will be implemented.

Of course you could mix some form of ECMAScript (JS, AS) with XML like for example Adobe's MXML or simply HTML itself, but we're talking about a system that is targeted at novice programmers, so we opted for the simpler solution.

Use the right tool for the job, guys! Just because Vodka is good at extinguishing pain doesn't mean it's good at extinguishing fire.

* (XSLT is not popular. It's infamous. )

[RoniDev]

Try expressing this JavaScript snippet in XML:

Code: Select all

var numberOfEdges = 0;
while (numberOfEdges < 5) {
   page("Keep at it");
}

Note: This does not actually work in the FlashTease viewer yet, but something like that can and will be implemented.

easy.

Code: Select all

<edges>
  <count>5</count>
  <instruction>Keep at it</instruction>
</edges>

Its all about the softwere which reads and interprets the xml file afterwards.

[mae0314]

Code: Select all

<edges>
  <count>5</count>
  <instruction>Keep at it</instruction>
</edges>

Now try something like this:

Code: Select all

var edges = 5;
while (edges > 0)
{
  edges = edges - 1;
  if (random(100) < 50)
    if(ask("Want more?"))
      edges = edges + 5;
  page("Keep at it!");
}

It's still possible, but becomes ugly.

[seraph0x]

<edges>

Ok. I see where you're going. But: That's one more tag that has to be:

- requested
- programmed
- tested
- released
- documented
- learned

And just think about how simple an example this was. mae0314 hits the nail on the head: You're gonna run into a complexity nightmare here. (Or end up with pretty limited functionality.)

Its all about the softwere which reads and interprets the xml file afterwards.

True. But what you're proposing is in my eyes putting too much emphasis on the software. For us it's the authors who count. Our job is to empower them to write kickass teases the way *they* want and for that we felt like we needed to give them the flexibility of an actual scripting language.

Your model would work very well with a pure visual editor. There you have a certain level of restriction anyway, so the XML would have less of an impact on the negative side, while retaining it's advantages. For us however, the visual editor is more meant to get people started with the FlashTease system, what we're really after is what people will be able to do with the scripting.

[RoniDev]

Now try something like this:

Code: Select all

var edges = 5;
while (edges > 0)
{
  edges = edges - 1;
  if (random(100) < 50)
    if(ask("Want more?"))
      edges = edges + 5;
  page("Keep at it!");
}

well there is always some code you cannot interpret... if you want that then you would have to create your own "tease-language". You could call it T++ ;)

you want to have at least 5 edges with the option (chance of 50%) to have another 5 edges.

So all you have to do is to add something.

Code: Select all

<edges>
  <count>5</count>
  <random>
      <chance>50</chance>
      <decision>
         <text>Want more?</text>
         <yes><count><increase>5</increase></count></yes>
         <no></no>
      </decision>
  </random>
  <text>Keep at it</text>
</edges>

[RoniDev]

And just think about how simple an example this was. mae0314 hits the nail on the head: You're gonna run into a complexity nightmare here. (Or end up with pretty limited functionality.)

I agree but that problem always exists. So you have to begin with some basics and then add more functions over the time.

[nilcum]

Hey, thanks for the reply seraph0x.

Code: Select all

1#page(
    "Tease Text",
    pic("1.jpg"),
    delay(10sec, 2#)
);

2#page(
    "Tease Text",
    pic("2.jpg"),
    delay(10sec, 3#)
);

I like that syntax. To be perfectly honest I despise XML but it seemed to be the be a quick and easy solution. If you already have something done for the parsing rock on -- I'll just use that.

I was thinking the same thing. To be precise: I wrote a little script that shows our regular teases in the FlashTease viewer, so that users would have options like viewing them in a slide show, etc. But I'm not exactly sure how the final thing is going to look

Cool, if you enabled something as simple as a user specified meta refresh the teases would be more enjoyable -- at least for me anyway. Hands free . Actually, it distribute a small piece of javascript ccode that would do this without any changes to the site.

From your post it sounds like all of the easy stuff it done! Thats great.

Ok, this is probably the core part of this post: What I see in the BDSM software area is too many solo fighters and too few team efforts. While I appreciate the challenge of competition, sometimes I wonder how much further we would already have come if all those people contacting me with their ambitious concepts for teasing programs, girlfriend simulators and whatnot would have joined our Team instead. If you choose to go solo, let me know and we'll support you wherever we can. But please at least consider joining us instead.

Actually, I'd much prefer to work in a group setting. The very next thing I was planning to do was to take all of the teases on milovana that used some of the "advanced" features in a ghetto fashion and convert them to use the new scripting language. Not sure how you feel about that... or if it's already been done.

Hands-off stroking is quite the engineering challenge.

Good thing I am an engineer

I think it's too early to say how the technology will reach the consumer. At this point we are only compiling ideas. The end result might be an assortment of independent toys, a box with slots to plug different toy modules into or even a highly integrated solution for a broader market. But that is a decision that should be made much later (after working prototypes for all ideas have been built for example.)

Agreed, in early development stage it is difficult to see how it will reach the end user. Whatever the method cost control is an important part. Something like this: http://www.kanojotoys.com/index.php/cat ... -machines/ is likely too expensive. Same with most TENS units.

A USB controlled electromagnet taped to the roof holding the key out of reach. (Although it has it's quirks, too.)

This is VERY easy to build. The problem with electromagnets is that they don't always release their hold when the current is stopped. I was also thinking about something that would cut a rope with heat but that has a distinct fire hazard associated with it =/. There is a program called TimeLock or something similar that will encrypt an image of a combination lock then decrypt it after a time expired. Simple concept and it has a build in safety net as someone could brute force a 4 dial combo lock in about 3 hours. I have lots of idea about this concept.

Whipping attachments: There are only two electronic whip designs to my knowledge that ever made it to market. One was called RoboSpanker or something and was too large and expensive for our purposes. The other was called Painstation, which is much closer to what we would design as Milovana. It was a tiny box featuring a whip, electroshocks and heat. It was used to spice up a round of Pong.

Yeah I saw that a while ago... looked interesting. I think they basically spun a piece of weed whacker cord around in a circle. Something a DC motor could do very easily. The problem is more how to position it.

Yes, we were thinking of a daemon the user could install that would open up toy control on a local HTTP socket... then all we would need to do in the FlashTease viewer is request URLs like
http://localhost:38493/vibrator?speed=30 or whatever. This would make the client incredibly lightweight and potentially very modular.

Ruby on rails baby -- gain linux support with that too. Great idea. Have you started development?

Thanks for the very thoughtful reply!

[nilcum]

<image>https://whatever.com/1.jpg</image>
So your project relies on web images?

Yeah I thought about that. I'm guessing milovana has gigabytes of images stored on it's server. While I could include such an archive it would really suck to download that much. On the flip side the content is out of user control and not available without an Internet connection. Perhaps the solution is to allow for both. You could just as easily put in a file:// link.

I agree, the robotics part would be - at least now - refreshing, although there's a project in the CyberMistress community with a USB Vibrator.

Hadn't heard of that -- thanks.

You should realize that this is already a relatively small market, and I wonder how many of the members actually have such robotic equipments or how many would want to invest in them.

Yeah, the primary motivation is to create this project for my own enjoyment. But sharing is a good thing to do too =)

[mae0314]

well there is always some code you cannot interpret... if you want that then you would have to create your own "tease-language". You could call it T++ ;)

That's what seraph0x is doing here.

So all you have to do is to add something.

Code: Select all

<edges>
  <count>5</count>
  <random>
      <chance>50</chance>
      <decision>
         <text>Want more?</text>
         <yes><count><increase>5</increase></count></yes>
         <no></no>
      </decision>
  </random>
  <text>Keep at it</text>
</edges>

Now you need another tag to specify, if the question is asked once with a 50% chance, or if there is a 50% chance during every edge, which is what my code does. Declarative is not the way here.