Implied or explicit underage

[motsel]

The newly posted "sisters new friend" tease cites an age which many states may consider to be a minor. This is a great site and I would hate to see it removed.

[seraph0x]

The images used in the aforementioned tease are from http://www.amateurcreampies.com and http://www.forcedmen.com.

Both sites are 2257-compliant - all models are above 18 years old. The tease "sisters new friend" would be legal under US and Dutch legislation.

Here are the 2257 statements of the respective sites:
Amateurcreampies.com 2257 compliance statement
Forcedmen.com 2257 compliance statement

However, since we don't have our own policy on fictional underage characters yet, I have taken the tease down pending a decision by the Team.

Thanks for reporting.

[seraph0x]

I'm allowing five days for the Team to vote, feel free to discuss this issue here as well.

[motsel]

Some references:

http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term ... 1A860E67A4

In http://www.adultweblaw.com/laws/childporn.htm
<snip>
Section 2256 clearly defines images of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct as "Child Pornography." It also, however, adds to that definition images that appear to depict a minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct, and images or advertisements that suggest images of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct. Does that mean that adult websites that display sexually explicit images of legal-age models in pigtails with a lollipop, while surrounded by stuffed animals, can be prosecuted under Child Pornography laws? The short answer is yes. Future prosecutions will determine which direction the law is going. See our Website Prosecutions page for a few examples of current adult website legal issues.

If your adult website displays images that arguably appear to have minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct, make sure that you are prepared. You should have the proper legal forms that you need to comply with federal record keeping requirements, and you should have a lawyer who has already seen your adult website(s) and has some idea about what arguments he or she will make if you are prosecuted. You should also have plenty of money and a desire to make the headlines. Remember, if you are prosecuted for violating child pornography laws, a jury will decide whether the content on your adult website is child pornography. Without a doubt, some juries will see child pornography where there is none.

[ThirtyDaysOfDenial]

Yikes. That could mean "Kissing Cave" by Jenna could be just as risky.
http://www.milovana.com/webteases/showtease.php?id=896

I'd hate a whole site get shut down without warning because of a technicality, when no harm was actually done.

The model is of course of age, but the script makes the character days away from her 18th birthday.[/url]

[quorr777]

Surely the point is that regardless of the various laws we should steer well clear of any suggestion of under age sex.
Other teases on the site don't mention an age but the models look child like. This is a fantasy which is not good to promote albeit innocently and within the law.

[Jenna]

It sure seems like anything goes in erotic fiction. Some really messed up stories can be found on any of the big story sites out there.

Once you have a photo next to fiction I’m not sure if the rules change. But it is obvious to anyone who reads these teases it is still a fictional story. No one is actually trying to get the reader to believe the models are actually underage.

Anything goes with erotic fiction if you look at the sites. Incest, pedophilia, rape, bestiality, anything you can think of. If it’s simply about what’s written, governments would have a lot of sites to crack down on.

[Salt]

I think its considered fiction, as long as you make people aware that the photo's are legit I doubt you'll have much problems.

[dark]

I think its considered fiction, as long as you make people aware that the photo's are legit I doubt you'll have much problems.

Yes I think it's legal. I don't know what was written in the tease, but I would not like a teasing girl under 18. Even it's just a story. This topic is very difficult .

For example a 17 year old girl can have sex with a 19 year old guy, but we need a limit. So I would set the limit at 18 years.

[Crocko]

Well the age of consent here in the UK is 16 years, if i'm correct. Seventeen, eighteen? It's all good to me.

[camipco]

Milovana is hosted in the US? Isn't 2256 only enforcable for US hosted sites?

In any case, fuck tha police.

[dark]

Milovana is hosted in the US? Isn't 2256 only enforcable for US hosted sites?

In any case, fuck tha police.

Nope netherlands

[seraph0x]

Milovana is hosted in the US?

No. We're hosted in the Netherlands and hopefully soon in Canada as well.

Isn't 2256 only enforcable for US hosted sites?

Pretty much. But we have a large amount of US users, so we are very much looking for ways to reach compliance with US legislation if only to make a statement that we take these issues seriously. While we are highly confident that all pictures on this site do comply with 2257 regulations we simply haven't got the manpower to accumulate all the necessary documentation. But we are currently working on ways to be able to do that in the future. After all it would be nice to be able to have mirrors in the US as well. Hopefully US legislation will eventually be relaxed to a more reasonable level that allows smaller/free sites to enter the market as well.

Unfortunately it looks looks as though there is no real precedent for combining images which are heavily regulated and stories which are not regulated at all. My personal tendency would be to venture on the safe side. But it would have to be an objective rule, like "no teases are allowed where the character is explicitly stated to be underage". I'm not good at guessing anybody's age and I don't want to start with that "She looks 16 max" - "No, she looks 19 at least!" business. If there is any doubt whatsoever about the age of the model we'll take it down. But the age of the character has to be clearly stated or suggested to be below 18. Otherwise we could just start banning any tease we don't like and that's the very last thing I want.

[Iammax]

Maybe an addition could be made to the tease-making process where the creator has to supply the source-site of the photos, and therefore their 2257 documentation.

[MaddieFay]

It's definitely a tricky situation.

From what I've read, it looks like 2257 only applies to the record keeping requirements of "visual depiction of actual sexual content," meaning that it would not apply to erotica or webteases so long as the teases were not accompanied by images of sex. This would open the door to a variety of teases that had images of women fully clothed, semi clothed, and even nude so long as absolutely no sexual activities were being portrayed in the image.

The requirements would also only seem to apply to the visual material, meaning that any accompanying text would be irrelevant, regarnless of it's content. Which would make the use of images of women over 18 from sites that are 2257 compliant along with text that suggests underage would not require any record keeping.

So, since 2257 only applies to record keeping requirements, all you would need to do is require that posters provide verifiable information as to the 2257 compliant site from which they aquired their material, and only when the material depicts sexual activity. Asking for any records would be unnecessary when it comes to non-sexual images accompanied by sexual text, as 2257 only seems to apply to imagery.

Now, as for underage laws, these would have more to do with regulations in the country where the owner of the site lives rather than where the site is hosted. But, I doubt that it is illegal in most countries to produce underage erotica or to distribute tasteful photos of young women. So the text and the image would have to be considered seperately once again, making sexual text with tasteful images of underage women, or text suggesting underage with of age women , both perfectly legal. Not moral, but not illegal.

Thank you, and I am sorry for writing such a gigantic response, I hope that it rings of truth and can help you out a little.