On male submission being "wrong"

[Human]

Hey Anna, this thread is not about you, I just quoted the ruckus thread for ref.
FYI whatver you said in your current post I'm 100% fine with. Everybody has prefs, and its
100% ok with me if a person says "I prefer men to be dominant ". Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but that
was not the only implication in the quote I had an issue with; and myabe you did not intend that implication..so lets let our former dispute go. This thread is more general..

Hope you have recovered well..

Good god, you just cant let it go!!

We sorted this human yet you choose to drag it all back up again.


What i said my *MY PERSONAL OPINION*. I am a submissive female, I seek out the dominant side in a male as an attractive quality because it is my my nature, as i am sure you find the attractiveness in the Dominant side of woman, yet you make it sounds like I think there is some fundamental problem with submissive males, which is total absurd. I believe that *everyone* is free to enjoy life as is in there nature and they have the right to enjoyment with any partner they choose.

In the context of the post....you asked what turned girls on, what the masturbate and edge to, and as a submissive female I told the truth and gave my perspective of what i find attractive and what i don't. Just because i personally don't enjoy something, doesn't make it bad or wrong, I just don't like it, like i don't like bananas, great fruit, excellent source of potassium but i just don't like them just a sub males can be wonderful, funny, charming men, but as a sexual preference there are not my attraction.

As has been pointed out, who is to say what is right and what is normal, but the way i see it if it makes you happy do it!

so once again I, it was my opinion, there was really no need for any fuss, or any further fuss....

[1885]

my concept of men is they should be the strong ones (and no i am not saying i am not for female equality and all that, i just like to be treated like a lady) so seeing men being very submissive is again a strange area for me.

Thats quite narrow minded of you...You would be what one would call a "closet bigot".

if you'd have paid attention, you'd have noticed that she *did* state her opinion, which she is also entitled to, without having you jump down her throat. Her statement, as quoted was " my concept of men is they should be the strong ones". Operative statement being "my concept".

Saying that someone SHOULD be like something, is a much harsher statement. You are implying they are WRONG in their proclivities.

What is said was not a personal attack on anyone!....Everything I said was preference, yes I enjoy dominant men, but if someone said to me they prefer Dominant woman, I am not going to get offended as a submissive. Its there PERSONAL OPINION!!!! So why has this been made into such a big deal??

Six Weeks Later

"my concept of men is they should be the strong ones"

The implication being that the person does not consider submissive males to be men.

[AngelAnna837]

Hey Anna, this thread is not about you, I just quoted the ruckus thread for ref.
FYI whatver you said in your current post I'm 100% fine with. Everybody has prefs, and its
100% ok with me if a person says "I prefer men to be dominant ". Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but that
was not the only implication in the quote I had an issue with; and myabe you did not intend that implication..so lets let our former dispute go. This thread is more general..

Hope you have recovered well..

Well then i would rather you didn't use me as your point of reference...
If this thread is general then keep it that way and leave me out of it...

[miatly]

The Enlightened take things Lightly, so here is some philosophical advice

All the world is just people doing things. (<--my own, the rest are discordian Catmas)

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

The conclusion you jump to may be your own.

Reality: It all depends on how you look at it.

Convictions Cause Convicts.

There is also the Guns and Dope Party whose motto is: Like what you like, enjoy what you enjoy, and don't take crap from anybody.

All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.

[quazwierdcev225]

i only read the first page, but plan to read the rest later. I just say, WOW! one man's simple comment, using words that he found on another site and it generated this much controversy?
I forget how powerful words can sometimes be! It seems that both sides have raised some very interesting points. I can't say that I agree with anything either side has said, but both of you have apparently thought about this a lot. I would like to say, though I'm not sure if I agree, that Elise Sutton (a famous woman in the world of femdom) believes that ALL men should be submissive. She believes that the world would be a more peaceful place if that happened. Just some food for thought.
quaz.

[MissKittyStryker]

Hi there! As it was my blog post that started all this thought I would pop in. :)

Submissive men aren't natural? I find that interesting. Submissive people, in general, are more natural than dominant ones- otherwise as pack animals humans would have a rough time of it. I don't think that's a male vs female thing (and if it is I would bet that's social conditioning, not "nature"). I think many more people like to be controlled on some level than wield control, and thank goodness for that.

Carry on.

[Human]

And on a personal note ... Human, quit picking on Anna.

Hey man, I didnt even mention her name before she jumped into this thread.

[Human]

Hi there! As it was my blog post that started all this thought I would pop in. :)

Submissive men aren't natural? I find that interesting. Submissive people, in general, are more natural than dominant ones- otherwise as pack animals humans would have a rough time of it. I don't think that's a male vs female thing (and if it is I would bet that's social conditioning, not "nature"). I think many more people like to be controlled on some level than wield control, and thank goodness for that.

Carry on.

I caused a female dom to register on milovana?
Bow to me male milovanians, mua ha ha ha ha.

PS: MissKittyStryker thanks for your compassionate blog post!

[Evals]

What I love is how you get loads of people, teases, stories, and nearly ever other form of media here consistently stating how superior women are to men. And yet, only the small opinion of one female that believes men should be the stronger ones in a relationship, sparks a massive debate.

Personally, I believe it is a huge fallacy to judge one gender as better than the other. This is a huge generalization, which shows a lack of insight into the completely gray area of what is "good" or "bad", or what is "right" and "wrong." Don't say "I think men should be dominant, but that's just my opinion." Nobody should really care what your opinion is. What is more important is why your opinion is.

To encourage a certain form of behavior whether it be gender dominance or sexual preference, simply because it is our natural instinct as developed through evolution... That is either ridiculous, or just a poor word choice. Yes, evolution has given us a set of natural behaviors, but evolution has also given us the ability to reason. This gives us the chance to change how we act when it seems acceptable. The question then becomes is what is acceptable to divert from what way our evolutionary history intended us to be?"

Clearly, if you choose to base your answer to that question on the way society will perceive you, which is what Nezhul may be doing, you "should not have" abnormal kinks and a questionable sexual preference. However, if you base things on the person is impacted by them and how they affect those around them, then there's no problem.

If you think there is a reason to stick to the way evolution has supposedly intended us to be, then I'm all ears.

[Handcuffed]

Nezhul, the whole problem with your argument is that you claim male submissiveness is "wrong" because it is not "normal". "Wrong" suggests a moral failing, and I don't see how you can extract a morality from statistics (most men are not submissive, therefore it is wrong to be). You're confusing "rare" or "unusual" for "wrong".

[shell]

Spoiler: show

my concept of men is they should be the strong ones (and no i am not saying i am not for female equality and all that, i just like to be treated like a lady) so seeing men being very submissive is again a strange area for me.

Thats quite narrow minded of you...You would be what one would call a "closet bigot".

if you'd have paid attention, you'd have noticed that she *did* state her opinion, which she is also entitled to, without having you jump down her throat. Her statement, as quoted was " my concept of men is they should be the strong ones". Operative statement being "my concept".

Saying that someone SHOULD be like something, is a much harsher statement. You are implying they are WRONG in their proclivities.

What is said was not a personal attack on anyone!....Everything I said was preference, yes I enjoy dominant men, but if someone said to me they prefer Dominant woman, I am not going to get offended as a submissive. Its there PERSONAL OPINION!!!! So why has this been made into such a big deal??

Six Weeks Later

"my concept of men is they should be the strong ones"

The implication being that the person does not consider submissive males to be men.

*laughing so hard*....not at anyone, or anything said.....but.....this just cracked me up!!!!

[shell]

Tolerance of other peoples' beliefs is the critical factor here. Without that, there will *never* be lasting peace anywhere. Including here, on this forum.

Perfectly worded!!!!

[dtspam]

@nezul/human
The very fundamental mistake you make is, that you asume, that there is such a thing as normal.

First of all, the social norm has nothing to do with nature, but with restricting the individual to make society work. There is no biological argument, why you shoumd marry only one person or why priests (in some churches) shouldt have sex etc. These rules serve a social purpose, and thus as society changes can become outdated.
I'm not saying, all of those rules are wrong, but there is nothing that makes them right for eternity either. They are man made not natural.

Secondly, I don't think most people do not fit the norm. They all have fantasies, fears, wishes, whatever that don't agree with the norm, they just manage to hide it. That's especially true for the much more restricting social rules we've already overcome. What is normal for people today, would have been considered "wrong" and behavior of a minority only decades ago.

So as long as there aren't solid arguments why something should be considered wrong (i.e. people get hurt), there is no reason to do so.

So no, there is nothing wrong with being submissive as a guy or dominant as a girl.
And being submissive, doesn't mean you're a week person anyway. I enjoy to submit, that doesn't mean I can't stand up to people that piss me off.

[Incubo]

The natural state of gender relationship is that men take the stronger side. It's the way it worked for ages, for thousands of years.

Actually, what Nezhul says here demonstrates the quite common problem of ehtnocentism.
While men assuming the more dominant role is quite common in Western cultures (evolving primarily from Greek and Roman culture) it is not the one and only way it's been done for thousands of years as you seem to be implying here. There have been several matriarchal societies through history and there are still some modern ones left. In these societies what you consider "normal and right" would be considered abnormal and wrong.

Further your argument about men being stronger seems to focus entirely upon physical characteristics and ignore the broader meaning of "power." Yet power in society is not, and even in western cultures hasn't been for quite some time, determined by physical prowess alone. Physically weak people, men and women, have wielded great power all through history. Napolean, Hitler, Catherine the Great, most of the Roman Ceaser's, heck every US president....none of them were big strong physical specimens, yet they became some of the most powerful people on Earth at one time or another. So "men are physically stronger" means next to nothing in a discussion about power and who should "normally" have it.

[shell]

@nezul/human
The very fundamental mistake you make is, that you asume, that there is such a thing as normal.

Spoiler: show

First of all, the social norm has nothing to do with nature, but with restricting the individual to make society work. There is no biological argument, why you shoumd marry only one person or why priests (in some churches) shouldt have sex etc. These rules serve a social purpose, and thus as society changes can become outdated.
I'm not saying, all of those rules are wrong, but there is nothing that makes them right for eternity either. They are man made not natural.

Secondly, I don't think most people do not fit the norm. They all have fantasies, fears, wishes, whatever that don't agree with the norm, they just manage to hide it. That's especially true for the much more restricting social rules we've already overcome. What is normal for people today, would have been considered "wrong" and behavior of a minority only decades ago.

So as long as there aren't solid arguments why something should be considered wrong (i.e. people get hurt), there is no reason to do so.

So no, there is nothing wrong with being submissive as a guy or dominant as a girl.
And being submissive, doesn't mean you're a week person anyway. I enjoy to submit, that doesn't mean I can't stand up to people that piss me off.

Agrees 100% !! *Smile*