Standalone, supercharged EOS-like tease software plans (looking for feedback!)

[Teddibaer]

Hi all!

The EOS tease system is pretty cool. And it works absolutely great for what it was designed to do: create a simple way for people to create & share webteases. That being said, we are living in 2022 and the EOS tease system also has it's limits. A new, standalone (Windows, Linux + Mac), supercharged EOS-like tease software suite would unlock a lot of features which are simply not possible with EOS. And this is exactly what I'm planning. A few examples of new possibilities:

• Direct access to the computer including all connected devices. Think stroke devices, audio devices, serial ports (for Arduino projects?), VR goggles...
• Playing (and having full control over) videos hosted on the web. Think PH videos for example
• Allowing tease creators to use a fully isolated V8 JS context to create customized teases beyond what EOS would ever be able to do

Privacy and security is paramount for such a system and therefore will have complete focus. Just like EOS teases will mostly be made out of components provided by the application. But because we can have a full JS engine running securely this will allow many more options and possibilities. Just like EOS no access will be given to teases that might compromise privacy, although I do have an idea to allow such features safely and only if the player wants to.

I'm personally a big Estim and bondage fan (although I'm still very much experimenting, I'm a noob!) and the Estim teases on Milovana are wicked. I think this project would unlock so many awesome new possibilities. Having access to all connected audio devices means we can play estim sounds on 1 sound device and play a video with it's sound on another, all synced. Depending on the tease it will be able to trigger your favorite release mechanism (Arduino, eject DVD drive etc)... Equally we could auto play synced videos with Funscripts for your favorite stroker devices.

Anyway, I'm initially looking for some feedback on the idea. Are you interested in this project? Would you use it? Would you want to create new and exciting teases with a supercharged tease system?

Any ideas are welcome just as criticism.

[indyc]

I do think EOS is quite ready for something that would be a 2.0. However, simple things like allowing PNG, layering, GIF, having better copy/paste functionality, and more text display options would go SO far in allowing me to do what I want.

I know the E-Stim/VR crowd seems to be the fastest growing so I am sure they would really appreciate increased functionality on that end even if I am not one of them.

So If you are looking for advice/feedback I would suggest for you to start with the low hanging fruit, make a demo of it, and then build on that after feedback. It will be harder to generate the excitement you may be looking for that will keep you motived long enough to tackle such a big project just by stating the idea/plans.

Are you able to build off of EOS or are you starting from scratch? Consider sending fapnip a message, maybe you can build off of a a lot of what they created with their Open EOS program. Regardless, I'm rooting for you.

[RemiHiyama]

I'd rather just work on improving GuideMe.

[Teddibaer]

I do think EOS is quite ready for something that would be a 2.0. However, simple things like allowing PNG, layering, GIF, having better copy/paste functionality, and more text display options would go SO far in allowing me to do what I want.

I know the E-Stim/VR crowd seems to be the fastest growing so I am sure they would really appreciate increased functionality on that end even if I am not one of them.

So If you are looking for advice/feedback I would suggest for you to start with the low hanging fruit, make a demo of it, and then build on that after feedback. It will be harder to generate the excitement you may be looking for that will keep you motived long enough to tackle such a big project just by stating the idea/plans.

Are you able to build off of EOS or are you starting from scratch? Consider sending fapnip a message, maybe you can build off of a a lot of what they created with their Open EOS program. Regardless, I'm rooting for you.

Appreciate the feedback, thank you. I agree with you that it's probably better to ask for initial feedback when an MVP is available for testing. I'd certainly start from scratch, the existing webtease functionalities only take a couple of days to develop anyway.

I'd rather just work on improving GuideMe.

GuideMe was a good idea but is also fundamentally limited in my opinion. Both because there is no in-app script browser (webtease-esque) and because it does not offer any of the native features I mentioned. It does offer a couple more features like video and gif support though but I'm envisioning a lot more.

[Teddibaer]

Decided to get started and we'll see where it ends up. Starting with the script player itself and the first script seems to be working. You gotta start somewhere eh? Exciting! Will start a devlog soon when I have a bit more to show.

[boundupone]

sounds like an interesting project and i wish you luck. personally i would prefer online system rather than software you have to download, but i guess that would limit things.

you should also consider integrating already existing things if possible (for example electron, erofights, xtoys, fapinstructor etc)

the key will be the gui and ease for content creators, as if it is too steep a learning curve you wont get enough people developing things to make it successful

[mantrid]

There already exists something like that, but nobody uses it: viewtopic.php?t=22725

Features:

• Simple syntax (take a look into the example tease to get started)
• Modularizable in order to write large teases and re-use code
• Uses web browser for playback (images, audio, video), no obscure software dependencies
• Supports JavaScript (usage not necessary for ordinary teases)
• Ultra flexible: the run time library is written in JavaScript such that anything could be changed. All toys that can be controlled via browser could be used
• HTTP server (written in Java and only depends on standard API) for extended functionality (e.g. toys that cannot be controlled via from web browser). Currently: half-dynamically generated estim sound
• Syntax checking. Try to write a large tease for GuideMe. Then you know what it is good for.
• Open Source

[Teddibaer]

sounds like an interesting project and i wish you luck. personally i would prefer online system rather than software you have to download, but i guess that would limit things.

you should also consider integrating already existing things if possible (for example electron, erofights, xtoys, fapinstructor etc)

the key will be the gui and ease for content creators, as if it is too steep a learning curve you wont get enough people developing things to make it successful

Thank you for the feedback. I understand something on the web is preferred over downloadable software, but as you say that greatly limits possibilities. I guess time will tell whether people are willing to download.

I'll certainly look into the existing projects you mentioned for possible integration, thanks!

User experience / ease of use is priority #1. No content = useless software in this case. Somewhere these days I'm gonna make a devlog thread where I'll share my plans in a bit more detail and will start posting updates on the progress. Hopefully people will get a bit more excited when I got something to show for it and start sharing more ideas.

There already exists something like that, but nobody uses it: viewtopic.php?t=22725

Features:

• Simple syntax (take a look into the example tease to get started)
• Modularizable in order to write large teases and re-use code
• Uses web browser for playback (images, audio, video), no obscure software dependencies
• Supports JavaScript (usage not necessary for ordinary teases)
• Ultra flexible: the run time library is written in JavaScript such that anything could be changed. All toys that can be controlled via browser could be used
• HTTP server (written in Java and only depends on standard API) for extended functionality (e.g. toys that cannot be controlled via from web browser). Currently: half-dynamically generated estim sound
• Syntax checking. Try to write a large tease for GuideMe. Then you know what it is good for.
• Open Source

Cool, thanks for sharing. Interesting project for sure. But again, in my opinion fundamentally flawed / limited in what it can achieve:

• Written in Java. This comes with pros and cons, but the biggest con in my opinion is UX with installing / running. I for one can't get it to work on my Ubuntu machine. People want an exe or an installer, click the app and be on their way.
• No GUI tease editor (EOS style). This is simply a must in my opinion. Only so many people are able / willing to script
• No screenshots in the first post to show off what you've made and get people excited. People are visual beings. They want to pleasure their eyes.
• No script browser

So while technically you've probably made something very nice, it is not something that the masses will start using I think because of the UX.

[mantrid]

Again: For playback of ordinary teases only a browser is needed. IMHO opening a html file in a web browser isn't too difficult.

Java (just a JRE or a JDK -- no additinal libraries) is only required for development (translating the scripts to a JSON file containng JavaScript code) and/or for extra functionaltiy like estim audio generation.

`gasm', the tool you need for development, can be easily integrated into your favourite IDE (I do not use IDE's.)

If you do not want to start `gserver' (the HTTP server for extra functionaltiy) from command line, you can create a starter for that task. (Hint: `gserver' has an built-in compiler such that it can also be used for development instead of `gasm'. Compiler messages can be found in the server log.)

Thus, if yo need the Java utilities, the installation steps are:

1. Installation of Java (JRE or JDK), if not already installed
2. Downloading the .jar file(s) from the repsository and copying them to some directory
3. Optinally: Creating an OS-dependent starter file (which is also system dependent, because it must contain the information where you the .jar files are located)

I'll create an installation script for Unixes (Linux, MacOS) which automates steps 2 and 3. (Including step 1, namely bundling it with a Java installation, would be an overkill.)

If you think

• it is easier to write a new program than to install existing software,
• and/or a programming language that produce platform depend binaries is more suitible for platform independent software than Java,
• and/or it is easier to develop a script browser than to use an existing editor / IDE,

you have to make your own thing.

A graphical editor like EOS limits the complexity of teases to that what EOS can do. (AFAIK EOS supports JavaScript and thus can access Toys/hardware using buttplug.io through a Websocket from the browser)

[Teddibaer]

I have a decent amount of Java knowledge, I made some simple game engines in it with LWJGL/OpenGL. I have nothing against the language, but if end users are going to use it I think it's sometimes a bit too much of a hassle for users. Even just asking them to download a JRE is too much asked for some.

To be clear: I'm not bashing your app. As I said I think it's a very interesting project. I just personally have a different view for end-user applications.

EOS only supports a very basic JS interpreter, so no, no websockets. Not suited for complicated scripts, just for some basic stuff. A V8 JS engine will allow whichever additional feature I can imagine.

I saw Xtoys this afternoon because @boundupone mentioned it, which is not bad. Might ditch my idea because of it. Doesn't seem like a lot of people are using it, even though it has tons of features (and doesn't look half bad). Wondering why. If anybody has any ideas I'd love to hear it. For now I'm having fun implementing EOS script support (about half way there already) so I'll probably keep going while I'm having fun. But as Xtoys ain't working I have lost a lot of faith today in that this might become a success.

[mantrid]

Developers of commercial software who have to make their customers happy bundle their Java software with a JRE together with many strange libraries. That is common practice under Windows. Users won't recognize in which language their software was written. They only recognize that they run out of disk space and that strange things happen on their PC.

That's why I hate it.

If someone thinks it is desirable to bundle my software with a JRE in order to save a little bit work (it's the only dependency that must be fulfilled), then this one should do that and share the result.

Open Source software lives from participation!

[Teddibaer]

Agreed! If only Windows would come with JRE pre-installed and keep it up-to-date with Windows Update... That would be a better world for sure.

[Darigaaz]

Hi. I agree with the analysis on EOS limitations and the need to make something better, but I definitively will never use a software for security reasons. Never mind how much effort you put in it, I would never trust enough software and tease creators to run it.
You should have a look on fapnip OEOS. It already comes with tons of great stuff and is a natural evolution of OES that we may have a chance to push as EOS replacement if Milovana's admin listen to us.

[mantrid]

Hi. I agree with the analysis on EOS limitations and the need to make something better, but I definitively will never use a software for security reasons. Never mind how much effort you put in it, I would never trust enough software and tease creators to run it.

If you do not run software (not even in an isolated environment like a virtual machine) because you do not trust it (not even if it is Open Source and you can audit it), you must not run any software.

But then I wounder how you wrote your message ...

[Evals]

For people on Windows who want to run untrusted software, I'd highly recommend Windows Sandbox which is a newer feature. You need Windows 10 Pro or Enterprise, build version 18305 or higher and some versions like Windows Education are essentially Pro and will work. Or upgrade to any flavor of Windows 11. You also may need to turn on virtualization in your BIOS. All the instructions are there in the docs. Push Windows+R and run winver to see what version of Windows you're using.

This is my personal configuration that disables everything that's turned on by default except for graphics acceleration which I turn on, and maps in a folder on your host machine so the files persist after you close the sandbox:

Code: Select all

<Configuration>
  <vGPU>Enable</vGPU>
  <Networking>Disable</Networking>
  <MappedFolders>
    <MappedFolder>
      <HostFolder>C:\Users\{YOUR_USERNAME}\Desktop\Sandbox Files</HostFolder> 
      <SandboxFolder>C:\Users\WDAGUtilityAccount\Desktop\Sandbox</SandboxFolder>
      <ReadOnly>false</ReadOnly>
    </MappedFolder>
  </MappedFolders>
  <VideoInput>Disable</VideoInput>
  <AudioInput>Disable</AudioInput>
  <ProtectedClient>Enable</ProtectedClient>
  <PrinterRedirection>Disable</PrinterRedirection>
  <ClipboardRedirection>Disable</ClipboardRedirection>
</Configuration>

You can make any edits to that, save it as Sandbox.wsb using Notepad, and double click the file to launch a sandbox easily with that config. Some changes you may or may not want to make:

• Enable networking if you want internet (very risky, IMHO it's stupid they have this on by default)
• Enable audio/video input if you need webcam or mic
• Enable clipboard redirect if you want a share clipboard with your host machine
• Disable vGPU (your graphics card) if you don't need 3D or fancy, responsive animations

There is always a risk there's some flaw inside the sandbox that could let containing applications break out, or they could do something like fill up the mapped folder which could run you out of disk space on your host machine. I take no responsibility for any of these suggestions, blame Micro$oft.

Also for a plug, try this femdom game. 100% highly recommended: https://grymgudinnagames.itch.io/karlssons-gambit