Status Quo

[Alliteration]

Allow me to beg your indulgence for one moment.

Sexytimes 5, are you daft, or just pusillanimous? Putting aside your screed about vengeful voters for the moment, are you really this misinformed about the nature of the voting system? I'll clue you in here: the ratings system is not a measure of objective quality as you seem to think it is. It's not a professional review such as you might find in an academic journal. Rather, it's nothing more than a popularity contest. This isn't a bad thing, it's just there. If you don't think such a poll is worth anything, you're entitled to that irrelevant opinion; however this doesn't give you or anyone else the right to excuse your work from the critique of the public eye, myopic though it may be.

When you release a work publicly, society is going to have an opinion regarding the quality of that work. This opinion is rather easy to quantify via a simple scale (in the case of milovana, a 1-5 rating on a tease). It's not perfect, but sans ballot box stuffing, it's got a pretty small margin of error. What you fail to comprehend is that all opinions are equally valid - precisely because they're not a measure of anything objective, but of one's feelings about the tease.

Imagine if you will that you ambulate yourself into a new buffet-style restaurant in your area. This restaurant is unique in that each tray of food has a spreadsheet next to it on which each customer may rate the dish from 1-10. You decide to have a large plate of sushi for dinner - surely the food of the gods, if ever there was one!
So you consume your sushi, and you find that not only was it delicious, it was expertly made. So you go up to the clipboard and write in a 9. Then you notice that the other ratings are much lower than your own.

What happened? Surely the other patrons realize just how amazing this sushi is? Well, no. As it turns out, most didn't like the sushi for a variety of reasons. Some just don't like the taste. Others are squeamish about the ingredients. Others have sampled better sushi elsewhere. Others refuse to try it because the chef sheds crocodile tears when someone doesn't worship his food. Still others just don't like the name. Are these votes incorrect? Of course not, people are entitled to like or dislike sushi for any reason they wish, just as they're entitled to the same with regard to teases.

In short, if you're going to start throwing furniture every time you fail to give the people what they want, then perhaps releasing public works isn't for you. You don't get to be a zero. You don't get to release a public work that's immune to the voice of the people. And you most certainly don't get to dictate personal tastes to people. I suggest you start a dream journal instead, and hide it under your mattress where no one will ever find it. Or maybe you could start work on Cock Hero: Like This Or Else Edition.

You're welcome.

[Sexytimes 5]

Allow me to beg your indulgence for one moment.

While your literary talent is fun and sometimes poignant it seems that you may have missed the true meaning of my post. You think I want to be immune to the voice of the people and that simply isn't the case. The voice of the people isn't well represented in the clicking system all the time. Their posts about a tease is certainly their opinion and a zero tease would draw out more people who don‘t like teases to post and maybe even help some authors out in the process.

People don't lose their voice because they can't click a button. Wouldn’t the peoples voices be heard more distinctly if they had to think and speak their opinions about teases in the form of a post? Do you believe that the community is best served by this current system that actually can be a misrepresentation of the peoples voices? Maybe a lot of the clicky little voices didn't even sample the sushi! Surely as you always create your posts in a deftly manner, you are also aware of the truth by now!

Why do I continually have to ask each of you basically the same types of questions? Why not allow a place on the site for authors that aren’t tempered the way you would like? It is certainly ok for people like you to dictate to the community what your tastes are concerning the ratings system. Keep it the good ole status quo. You have no problem with that whatsoever.

Have you ever been to an establishment that had a click button to rate their products? Some places have a comment card about their service which is exactly what I’m talking about here. Why would it bother such an esteemed poster such as yourself to rate a tease with a post? I guess you just don’t want to take the time to express your thoughts about the teases you look at that you wind up hating. Is it because you can only take the time to talk about the teases you like? You can take the time to create posts like this when you are inspired at someone you see as daft so why not take a few seconds to post about a tease when you want your voice heard. Just type “This is a 1” and take off if you’re short on time. The real bummer is that there are so few of you guys that really love the clicks. A tease with 50,000 views with 600 votes? That tiny percentage of views represents the voice of the community better than the posts would. Since you click lovers are the only people who post and seem to control the whole direction of the site and the ratings I guess we must continue being underneath your rule if we wish to be part of the community.

I suggest you keep up the good work with your posts. Maybe if we can't have zero rated teases we should at least start being able to rate posts too. That way someone with so much to offer this community like yourself can get some community feedback with the same click style judgments. Surely you would like that since you're so good at making posts. You would get 5's from me when you manage to make me laugh. But watch out when the post gets rated down to a 2.6 because nobody will ever see it again.

[Alliteration]

You think I want to be immune to the voice of the people and that simply isn't the case. The voice of the people isn't well represented in the clicking system all the time.

The only time the voice of the people isn't well represented is in cases of vote fraud - which Seraph0x is already taking measures to deal with. In all other cases, despite your anguish over the people's arbitrary reasons for voting in ways you don't approve of, it's still their voice.

People don't lose their voice because they can't click a button. Wouldn’t the peoples voices be heard more distinctly if they had to think and speak their opinions about teases in the form of a post?

As I've already articulated, the rating system is nothing more than a poll. While it doesn't provide any insight into the reasons that people vote the way they do, it has a much, much larger sample size than the forum can ever hope for. What baffles me is why anyone would want to opt out of one of the two sources of tease feedback. Forum posts about your tease are going to have a smaller sample size, and thus be less accurate, but give more information than the rating, which contains less information but a larger sample size. Having both available will always be more informative than just having one available.

Why do I continually have to ask each of you basically the same types of questions?

Probably because you don't understand the answers the first time. Or you're just looking for an argument.

Why not allow a place on the site for authors that aren’t tempered the way you would like?

There is, it's called the forum. You're on it right now. Hello. It's really, really easy to just...not look at the ratings, if you don't want to. Your opt-out solution will probably require massive amounts of coding to implement, while just ignoring them requires literally no effort at all.

Keep it the good ole status quo. You have no problem with that whatsoever.

Stop using "status quo" as if it's always a bad thing. Everything is fine. Nothing is ruined.

Some places have a comment card about their service which is exactly what I’m talking about here.

We have comment cards too. It's called the forum. Hi again. Remember that point about multiple sources of feedback? Yeah.

You can take the time to create posts like this when you are inspired at someone you see as daft so why not take a few seconds to post about a tease when you want your voice heard. Just type “This is a 1” and take off if you’re short on time.

The only difference between clicking "1" and typing "this is a 1" is that the latter takes longer. If I want to say something more about a tease, then I will in the forums. But if I merely want to let the author know how good I think the tease is, it's only a click away. If I have no further comments besides my general opinion of a tease, but it's one of your "zero" teases, I'm not going to bother posting "this is a 1" in the forum, and neither is anyone else. All your solution results in is less overall feedback.

I suggest you keep up the good work with your posts. Maybe if we can't have zero rated teases we should at least start being able to rate posts too. That way someone with so much to offer this community like yourself can get some community feedback with the same click style judgments. Surely you would like that since you're so good at making posts. You would get 5's from me when you manage to make me laugh. But watch out when the post gets rated down to a 2.6 because nobody will ever see it again.

Slashdot uses such a system. When I read Slashdot comments, I always "show all". But you don't see me running around Slashdot trying to make the case that downrated comments shouldn't be automatically hidden, or that some posters should be allowed to opt out of post ratings. The system works well for those who want it, and for those who don't turning it off is the simplest task in the world. It's just as easy to show all teases and just not look at the ratings.

You're welcome.

[Wyatt]

I asked seraphOx to check for manipulation. He could find nothing out of the ordinary.

Wyatt

[stkk2]

I'd like to ring in as a viewer that hasn't actually published before. I'm very careful about my rating of webteases at Milovana, but I also see Sexytimes' point. To me, the easiest way of giving a true and correct weight to the value system would be simply to make the rating system available only to those members who have logged in. This shouldn't be difficult. I couldn't post here without logging in. In the forum setting, clicking on reply brings me to a log-in screen if I haven't already logged in for the session. The same should apply for the teases. The number one reason for implementing this check would be to stop people from rating a tease multiple times. Without such a security check there would never be a way to say there had been manipulation of the rating poll since any person can close a tease and reopen it without being logged in and rate it a second time.

If I might make a request, could we simply try making the rating system a log-in-only experience? I miss Sexytimes' teases...lol...and I certainly want to see new content as it's developed. It wouldn't hurt anyone at all to do this, but it might hurt us in the long run if we don't.

Thanks, all, for your time and thought here. Thanks Sexytimes for your work. I hope you'll consider making your teases available again at some point in the future.
Cheers,
STKK2

[1885]

To me, the easiest way of giving a true and correct weight to the value system would be simply to make the rating system available only to those members who have logged in.

I don't think this is the solution either. Only a handful of members vote for TOTM every month, 60-70 on average maybe. I couldn't imagine a huge influx of people registering just to be allowed to rate tease, which means all we'd be doing is shrinking the sample size. Since so many of us are pretty familiar with each other here, I think all this would do is create its own kind of status quo.

Take someone like Nezhul - While I like him personally, he's been a very polarizing figure in the past. I don't think his ratings would ever be an accurate representation of the quality of his teases because people have such strong feelings about him one way or the other. I'm not saying to say none of us have the capacity to be objective, but c'mon... "Dammit I HATE that Nezhul guy, but what a great tease he's written... 5 stars."

That's just one example. I can think of others but I'm trying to keep the tone of this conversation pleasant. I'm just saying there's good authors whose ratings would suffer under a change to a system like that, and that's what we're trying to avoid in the first place, right?

But all this is reactionary to a crisis I don't see happening. Yes some people are going to rate teases a 1 to be dicks. That's not a ratings war. That's the internet.

[rtr]

Spend more than a year of lurking here and i will continue that after that posts.
Please bring your teases back. They were good. Please make new ones.

Having different opinions about the rating and how it should be performed is a bad reason to leave.

Thank you for what you have done so far.

[Nezhul]

I'm a bit late with this reply, but...

So if your good teases started taking a dive in the ratings unjustly you would just sit there and be happy about it?

Yup! I make teases for myself as a vent for my imagination and horny thoughts. Or to try some ideas. It's not my problem if someone doesn't like them! I like them, well, most of them. Also I didn't notice a single really good tease go down. I didn't see a single medium-quality tease get really deep in rating. As I see it the rating is more or less accurate, BUT why the hell should it matter?!

Why are the ratings buttons even there if nobody freaking cares about ratings?

I rate teases I deem good. I could rate teases I think are bad, but what good will it do? Only more sinking them in. Also in most cases it's just my personal preference that makes them bad for me.

Why should new users be denied the chance to see a tease because it was allowed to go into the toilet in the ratings unjustly?

Really, why should they? A tease with low rating is still acessible, and personally I view them from time to time and sometimes find something interesting. But when someone DELETES their teases - that's when the users are denied enjoying them, because someone got butthurt about their rating lower than TOTM. Really! There are objective reasons sometimes, and I can understand that, but because of a rating? Sheesh!

Why can’t you ever be cool with me and say anything other than some negative comment.

Because I'm never cool with anything, especially such unreasonable and stupid behaviour as yours. Ask people on the site - they tell you I may be sharp on my words and I don't take sides except my own. I have an opinion - I voice it, no matter if it makes you or someone else feel bad. In another topic you make good conversation - I act nice and friendly.

Why wouldn’t you say something about the damn issue that speaks of the actual problem here? You really think I’m the problem? You know full well what’s up and yet you keep pretending like many others on here. What a shame.

It's the INTERNET, baby! You can't do nothing about it being full of trolls and dickheads and morons and people generally of different views than yours, and people who don't share your tastes, race, age or gender. Bear with it. You are the problem when you get all freaked out by it. Everyone else just keep on doing what they like and don't complain.

[stkk2]

Well, I'm done waiting patiently for those teases to come back up. There's nothing I can do about it, but I'll say that you negatively influenced my time at milovana by removing a series that I was working through. It's strange that the original plan was to help even out the rating system so that your webteases wouldn't get buried...and instead of letting them float to the top, you took them away yourself...it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'd love to see them back, but I won't hold my breath, sexytimes. You've made this a true tease, in every sense of the word!

[Sexytimes 5]

I had a nice long, hateful, stress reducing, clever reply prepared for a couple of you but decided not to go there even though it would have been entertaining. My goal wasn't to destroy the precious ratings system or bring out the same old song and dance from the usual suspects again. The solution is already here! TeaseMe! I get to have my zero rated teases and you guys can keep on keeping on with the same old same old if that's what floats your boat. Maybe the new Eos system will change things for the better when it is launched, we'll see. Peace, Love and Happy Clicking to all!

stkk2, I posted in this thread that anyone who wanted my teases could have them for use with TeaseMe. I will republish them on the site if you absolutely don't want to mess with TeaseMe but I would highly recommend that you get it and download the teases from the links in the TeaseMe forum. That way if an author publishes on the site and you like the tease or start a series you can download it right into the program for offline use. If the author decides to throw a 3 month temper tantrum, or worse, you won't have to miss out on what was already published. The pictures are better in most of the linked copies. Check it out.
http://www.milovana.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6993

I don't want to deprive people who want the teases. They are available. I tried to make a statement to draw out a few people and start something different for the site and promote more interaction and actual feedback. Unfortunately it backfired intstead. Probably because I threw my fit while trying to get it going. Sorry if my actions negatively influenced your Milo trip sttk2. I'll make it up to you with some teases.

I have been “inspired” in this thread to name a couple characters in my upcoming TeaseMe releases the following if Alliteration and Nezhul will agree:
The Mean Head Mistress in one could be named Miss Neziz Noticool! A Horribly efficient sci-fi computer could be named the Allite Ration 5000! Seriously guys, at least something creative can come out of this.

[Alliteration]

I had a nice long, hateful, stress reducing, clever reply prepared for a couple of you but decided not to go there even though it would have been entertaining.

It seems our perniciously puerile, periodically prodigal son has returned. How about that.

My goal wasn't to destroy the precious ratings system or bring out the same old song and dance from the usual suspects again. The solution is already here! TeaseMe! I get to have my zero rated teases and you guys can keep on keeping on with the same old same old if that's what floats your boat.

You're just now coming to that epiphany? You were aware of this solution way back on September 27, when you said this: "Maybe I will just dodge the whole ratings thing by creating my teases with the TeaseMe program." So, why the absence of over a month? Why bother preparing a "nice long, hateful, stress reducing, clever reply"? This passive-agressiveness isn't needed. Just go about your business publishing via TeaseMe.

Sorry if my actions negatively influenced your Milo trip sttk2. I'll make it up to you with some teases.

If you're truly apologetic, the way to remedy this is to reverse your actions and not do it again. Put your teases back up. Consolation prizes are just a slap in the face.

I have been “inspired” in this thread to name a couple characters in my upcoming TeaseMe releases the following if Alliteration and Nezhul will agree:
The Mean Head Mistress in one could be named Miss Neziz Noticool! A Horribly efficient sci-fi computer could be named the Allite Ration 5000! Seriously guys, at least something creative can come out of this.

I don't own any trademarks on my username, so I can't prevent you from doing so. But I prefer not.

You're welcome.

[Banquo]

I had a nice long, hateful, stress reducing, clever reply prepared for a couple of you but decided not to go there even though it would have been entertaining.

It seems our perniciously puerile, periodically prodigal son has returned. How about that.

I don't see any reason to make this a personal and rather petty little argument Allit. I know you like to act like you are some kind of polymath genius by belittling other users. But really it's not big, and it's not clever.

Sexy time was clearly trying to clear the air and politely return to Milo. I am sure in time he will reinstate his teases. And I know for a fact he will be creating more.

Looking at your profile Allit I see you have created the grand total of one tease. Maybe your time would be better spent feathering your creative talents rather than your destructive ones as by the look of your solitary tease you have plenty of talents in that area.

Banquo

[stkk2]

I didn't expect such a quick response. Thanks, ST5. I tried the offline viewer once and couldn't really get it to run the way I wanted, so I gave up and came back to browsing the site. I'll give it another shot (pun possibly intended? are we allowed to shoot?) when I get the house to myself. Anyway, I don't expect us to all just get along. But I do love feeling like there's an open dialogue. Cheers to us for being adults and being able to express ourselves. And isn't that what this site is about too?

Thanks again.
STKK2